Agreeing past participle with 'on' (compound tenses)

Hi Peter,

there are numerous posts and explanations under this topic already. Can you point to what explicitly you don't understand?

-- Chris.

Well, what can I say. A language is not math. 

-- Chris. 

Hi,

I agree with Peter that it is a strange one but as odd as it may be, 'on doit l'accepter'.

Just to recap -  

1.  When  'on' means 'we', the past participle will agree in gender and number to whom it refers to:

Marianne et moi (Cécile), on est allées au Portugal pour nos vacances d'été.

On est sortis en bande avec des copains hier soir.

On est rentrés tard hier soir après une bonne journée passée en famille.

On s'est séparées à regret, mes amies d'école et moi.

2. When 'On' stands for 'tout le monde', 'les gens', 'en général' , it will stay in the third person singular as in:

On n'est jamais si bien servi que par soi-même = If you want something done right, do it yourself

Quand on a reçu un don, on a des obligations =  When you receive a gift, it creates obligations

Hope this helps!

 

Like you Peter, I was a bit taken aback to learn that ‘on’ could be used in a plural way. I distinguish between them by thinking of the singular ‘on’ in terms of using the reference ‘one’ does this or that. At one time it was quite commonly used (on pun intended, lol )

Yes, but unless it is a personal "we" (as in me, my wife and the kids) you don't use the plural. 

 

On est allés en vacances. -- We went on vacation. 

On est allé à la lune. -- We went to the moon (we=humanity. )

 

-- Chis (not a native speaker). 

I believe I understand the general principle. However, in the sentence given by stephen it seems contradictory to me that it then goes on with a plural "des prédateurs". To me this indicates that the "on" is a real plural and the participle should be "restés".

Bonjour Daba, This is a very good question. I see no reason that the verb aller cannot be used in the same phrase. The fact that partir is used leads me to believe that it has more to do with agreeing of the past participle in phrases that use «on» as the subject. However, I am uncertain what difference it would make with whichever verb was used. Perhaps someone from the Kwiziq team will be able to provide a more informed answer. Bonne chance.

Hi Daba,

Could you give me the exact sentence as paraphrasing won't work here... 

Bonjour Alan, Is your question about a specific kwiz question? Please resubmit and provide the quiz question you have concerns about. Bonne chance.

Hello Ron, The question was no.8 in a C1 advanced focus test. We were asked to fill in the blank in the sentence, "En tant qu'Hommes, on est toujours...........à la découverte de nouveaux horizons".

I do recall that specific question and as I recall I had an incorrect response. I agree with your observation that being male, the verb agreement should be correct. Wish I could be of more help on this. J'espère que ma réponse vous aiderait. Bonne chance et bonne continuation dans vos études en français, la langue de Molière et qui a été utilisé par le monde depuis l’époque d’Hugues Capet

I think the sentence is talking about mankind in general (in pursuit of new horizons), so there would be no agreement.

I also had trouble with this specific kwizik question, I think because the english translation "As Men, we..." leads me to understand that the group of people in questions is specifically male. Maybe the translation could be "As humans, we..." or something similar? I do understand the sense that it is representing mankind... just the nuance is a bit less clear, I guess. Hope this makes sense.

Bonsoir Lucien, Je pense que la leçon est très précise en ce qui concerne le groupe mélangé avec des hommes et des femmes. Je ne suis pas exactement sùr en ce qui concerne votre question. Dans un groupe ce qui compose des hommes et des femmes l'agrément est toujours masculin, mais si le groupe n'était que les femmes, l'agrément serait feminin, soit la phrase est au singulier soit le pluriel. Mon affaire est ce que la leçon est de l'agrément en ce qui concerne l'utilisation du mot «on». «Note that when it comes to agree the past participle with 'on', there are two cases: - If on is used for a specific group of people (i.e. meaning 'we' (nous) where the speaker is personally included in 'we'), then the participle will have a plural ending, and its gender agreement will depend on whether the group contains men or women.» Aujourd'hui, la plupart des groupes contiennent les hommes et les femmes. J'espère que cela vous aidera et bonne chance. Ron

Bonjour Umi ! Did you have a question regarding this lesson ?

Bonjour Aurélie, I am sorry for not completing my question. Somehow I lost the page where I was writing my question regarding the usage of "ON." So my question is: "As Men, we always went off to explore new horizons" in the example for "on", why is it treated as a singular as indicated on the page for the lesson? "En tant qu'Hommes, on est toujours allé à la découverte de nouveaux horizons." Since "Men" is a plural, I thought that we needed to change the past participle accordingly. I would like to get an explanation to clarify my confusion, please. Merci beaucoup, umi

Bonjour Umi ! The distinction is whether "on" refers to "we" - i.e. the speaker and other people he's with - or to a broader, more abstract group - i.e. "people in general". Here we used the generic "Men" referring to Humanity in general, hence the capital letter, so it belongs to the second case. I hope that's helpful! À bientôt !.

Bonjour Melanie, To understand "on" you have to carefully consider the context. Can you give me an example of what you're getting wrong? It's not really a matter of translation. We can say things like "We're always in a hurry these days" to mean "we, people in general" as opposed to "we, my husband and I." So you have to consider not the translation, but the meaning behind it - is the sentence making a general statement about people / society, or is it referring to specific people?

I'd love to track down the two examples I got wrong, Laura, but sadly your system won't let me access tests I've already taken without paying to upgrade, which is not financially possible for the foreseeable future.

Bonjour Melanie, You can see all of the tests you've taken, including your results, by scrolling down to the bottom of your dashboard, in the section "Test history."

OK. I'll look for them again. I wasn't able to access them at the end of that "all you can eat for a week" sampler.

OK, I think I found all the C1 examples pertaining to this grammar point. I thought I had two examples with the same type of mistake, but it turns out the second error was a choice of the wrong verb, and only the first example pertains to my question, i.e., determining the context. *** Pendant la dernière année, on est souvent ________ trop loin dans les médias. During the last year, we often went too far in the media. ✔️ allé ✖️allés The question at issue here is who are the "we" in this example? Of course, it would help to understand what it means to 'go to far' in the media, which I was unclear on. But I interpreted this "on" to be a defined group of people of which the writer is a member. This is what I meant when I wrote that the interpretation appears arbitrary. La semaine dernière, on est ________ voir nos amis. Last week, we went to see our friends. ✔️ allés ✖️venus [This is the one where I chose the wrong verb.] *** So illustrate that I'm not a complete idiot, these are the examples I got correct the first time I encountered them: Hier matin, on est ________chez nous. Yesterday morning, we went back home. ✔️ rentrés Hier, mon frère et moi, on est ________ dans un grand bateau. Yesterday, my brother and I, we got on a big boat. ✔️montés En 1969, on est ________ à la conquête de la Lune. In 1969, we went to conquer the Moon. ✔️parti ✔️✔️allé (I appreciate full credit for aller instead of partir, which was used in the multiple choice version of this question.) En tant qu'hommes, on est toujours ________ à la découverte de nouveaux horizons. As men, we always went off to explore new horizons. HINT: Use "aller" ✔️ allé On est souvent ________ de faire des choses désagréables. One is often compelled to do disagreeable things. HINT: contraindre = to compel ✔️ contraint On est souvent ________ par les événements. One is often overtaken by events. HINT: dépasser = to overtake ✔️dépassé PS. Why do some correct responses have double checks next to them while others have only one?