Re Daniel E’s post and responses below
I’m finding the use of the subjunctive past for future actions unexpectedly tricky, I think because the English "I need to leave by nine" or "they need us to arrive", already includes the idea of a completed future action (you can’t leave without having left or arrive without having arrived!)
Is the subjunctive present ever an option in this type of sentence or is the subjunctive past mandated?
The choice of which subjunctive to use really is up to you and what you want to emphasize. Here's an example:
Ils veulent que tu partes avant neuf heures. -- They want you to leave before nine o'clock.
Ils veulent que tu sois parti avant neuf heres. -- They want you to have left by nine o'clock.
The difference isn't so much a factual but an emphatic one. Similarly, with your example:
I need to leave by nine. -- Il faut que je parte avant neuf heures.
I need to have left by nine. -- Il faut que je sois partie avant neuf heures.
Bonjour Anne,
I don't have access to the post that you refer to in your query, but when I see the use of "need" I think about a sense of a strong desire.
It is a strong desire aspect that would justify the subjunctive mood -- the tense being used, to my mind, is almost secondary to the desire aspect.
Bonne journée
Jim
My question is not whether to use the subjunctive. I wanted to know if the subjunctive present is an option for the examples quoted, or whether the subjunctive past is needed so as to preserve concordance. (The previous discussion was about using it to emphasise a sequence of events).
Doesn't my answer to Daniel's question in the discussion clarify that point already?
What I wrote was:
The subjonctif passé makes clear that the party needs to have arrived before the start of the ceremony. Whenever you want to emphasize the sequence of events, i.e., that one needs to have completed before the other one starts, you use the subjonctif passé.
Thank you, Chris W, but my question was: can you use the present subjunctive to translate the English present tense in the examples I gave, where a sequence of events is implied but not explicit. Or is the past tense mandatory?
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