bien que in Larousse vs. Collins

Question

My question is about bien que. Sorry if this the wrong place to bring it up, but Jameson brought it up.

I had thought that bien que was a trigger for the subjonctive.

I went to Larousse to look at bien que:

https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/bien/9074

bien que

locution conjonctive

despite the fact that, although, though

bien que malade, il a tenu à y aller although he was ill, he insisted on going

NOT the subjonctive

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/french-english/bien-que

bien que CONJONCTION

although

Il fait assez chaud bien qu’il n’y ait pas de soleil. It’s quite warm although there’s no sun. subjonctive

So, please can someone explain this to me?

Accepted Answer

Hi Melody,I note that in one case that you quote, the expression "bien que" is followed by an adjective (malade).https://www.wordreference.com/fren/bien%20queThis construction does not demand the subjonctif mood.But otherwise it does.https://www.lawlessfrench.com/subjunctivisor/bien-que/Hope this helps.Jim

Answer

Thanks Jim.  I am reading Le Bouchon de Cristal online.  I had  searched it for "bien que" and saw that bien and que  can be next to each but don't equal "bien que" b/c the bien belongs with a previous verb, and que belongs with the next statement.  Obviously no subjonctive required!  But there were other instances where "bien que" meant "although" but w/o subjunctive.  I'll go back and look at those.  I expect I'll find that they are "bien que" + adjective.  Thanks again.  Melody

Answer

Jim, thanks again. Some (a lot) of the sentences in "Bouchon" are complicated (grammar-wise?) but looking for the adjective does help me understand the issue.

"Clarisse et lui, bien que poursuivant un but identique, avaient perdu des semaines à se combattre."

Not so complicated:

Ces scrupules, bien que tardifs, puisque vous ne les aviez pas hier, ces scrupules vous honorent.

Answer

Jim is correct. Let's look at the two examples again in more detail:

Bien que malade, il a tenu à y aller. -- "Bien que" does not pertain to the verb "a tenu" at all in this sentence. It is followed by an adjective and set off by a comma from the rest of the sentence.

Il fait assez chaud bien qu’il n’y ait pas de soleil. -- Here, "bien que" does require the subjunctive because it belongs the rest of the sentence "il n'y ait pas de soleil".

Just ask yourself what is being put in question by "bien que". In the first sentence it is "malade", in the second one, however, it is "il n'y ait pas de soleil".

Answer

Chris, thank you for the added & helpful perspective on "bien que".

You said "Just ask yourself what is being put in question by "bien que". Something I will remember. ! !

Ah, it helps me better understand this from Bouchon (mentioned above by me)--

"Clarisse et lui, bien que poursuivant un but identique, avaient perdu des semaines à se combattre."

Melody