Avant que + ne explétif + Le Subjonctif = Before I do

Hi ch,

If you let me know where you found this sentence , I will try and check it out for you.

Both are possible. Using "avant de" it isn't clear what the subject is, while "avant que" does mention the subject and is more explicit. 

But, of course, with "avant de" the subject would be me tioned in the main clause. 

Hi Mary, 

Having done some research with other teachers in France , I am afraid that in written form the 'ne' is still very much de rigueur.

It is explétif (optional) in a few cases like after certain expressions like 'à moins que', 'avant que', 'sans que' and some verbs like 'craindre que', 'redouter que'  but even the Académie française say at it is de meilleure langue ( better French ) to use it in written form.

Just a few examples to illustrate the point, others will be found in the lesson above and other links.

J'irai le voir à moins qu'il (ne) pleuve = I will go and see him unless it rains.

Je te le donnerai avant que tu (ne) partes. = I'll give it to you before you leave.

Il fait ce qu'il veut sans que personne (ne) puisse l'arrêter. = He does what he wants without anyone being able to stop him.

Je crains qu'il (ne) mente. = I fear he is lying.

Elle redoute que son projet (ne) soit pas accepté.= She fears that her project may not be accepted.

Hope this helps!

Thank you so much. It was wishful thinking on my part, although I was under the impression that you did not have to use the "ne" now.  Thank you again.  I am enjoying your lessons.  Every day I find out something more that I don't know.  Mary

I was taught at school that Avant que takes subjunctive only when there is a change of subject. 

This is also confirmed here:

2-Deux sujets identiques+deux actions différentes=avant de+infinitif
Il fait sa toilette avant de prendre son petit déjeuner.


3-Deux sujets différents+deux actions différentes=avant que+subjonctif
Sandra est rentrée avant que la pluie commence à tomber.

However, it seems that in the examples on this website, Avant que always takes the subjunctive, regardless of whether there is a change in subject. 

For example: Avant que je n'aille chez Paula, je dois acheter des fleurs.

(Before I go to Paula's, I have to get some flowers)

What is the rule here? Or are both accepted? 

Hi Ry,

Avant que always takes the subjunctive, whether there is a change in subject or not. Note, that this isn't in contradiction to your rules.

-- Chris (not a native speaker).

Bonjour Chris, Keeping in mind that «arriver» has many senses in French, let's look at a few: 1) [train, visiteur, courrier] to arrive ⇒ Il arrive à Paris à 8 h. He gets to Paris at 8., He arrives in Paris at 8. j'arrive! I'm coming!, coming! en arriver à faire -- to end up doing, to get to the point of doing 2) (= survenir) to happen ⇒ Ce sont des choses qui arrivent. These things happen. ⇒ C'est arrivé quand? When did it happen? 3) arriver à qn --> to happen to sb ⇒ Qu'est-ce qui est arrivé à Christian? What happened to Christian? arriver à (sujet chose) [date, étape] to reach arriver à terme [contrat] to come to an end arriver à échéance to fall due 4) (= réussir) arriver à [perfection, but] to reach, to achieve arriver à faire qch to manage to do sth ⇒ J'espère que je vais y arriver. I hope I'm going to manage it. Given these various definitions, to me it is not obvious the meaning is «before I arrived" So here is another possible translation for that phrase --> until I got here (in this sense, yes until I arrived. However, in looking at that first phrase from «Le Petit Nicholas» «Que faisiez-vous, avant que je n’arrive?» --> What did you do before that I can't? Without knowing the exact context of the initial phrase from the story, there are several different meanings as can be seen from the definitions. I do hope that this is helpful to you and that it does not further cloud the issue. The take away here is this: while the most obvious meaning is possibly the correct sense, there are other possible meanings to keep in mind within the context of the story. Bonne chance

Ron: Votre explanation était fantastique!! J'ai toujours du mal avec arriver surtout quand on fait reference à quelque chose qui est passé. (Faut-il qu'on utilise un après dans la phrase précédent?) Dans tous les cas, peut-être on pourrait substituer le verbe lorsqu'on veut-dire "manage or get by". Merci d'avoir m'aider. Don

Bonjour Donald, Merci d'avoir me donné votre appréciation de mon explication. Je suis vraiment ravi que vous en avez bénéficié bien. Bonne journée

Pouvez-vous nous donnez un exemple de quoi vous parlez avec cette phrase-ci: «Faut-il qu'on utilise un après dans la phrase précédent?». Je n'ai pas d'idée du sens de votre question.

Bonjour Donald, Ah. . .il m'a pris un peu de temps de comprendre votre question. . . . quand on fait reference à quelque chose qui est passé. ---> when we are referring to something that happened. En fait, non, il ne faut pas user le mot «un» dans votre phrase. Si on a dit «quand on fait UN reference à quelque chose qui est passé», la sense de la phrase a changé ---> When there is a reference to something that happened. Il est possible d'user «un» mais il n'est pas nécessaire.

Maintenant, je comprends ce que vous avez écrit. J'ai voulu substituer le verbe lorsqu'on a utilisé le verbe arriver. Donc, vous avez utilisé la phrase . J'ai voulu savoir si je pourrais substituer le verbe se débrouiller au lieu d'en utilisant le verbe arriver. Je dirais par example J'espère que je vais s'y débrouiller. Je pense que je parle n'importe quoi.

Bonjour Donald, Merci d'avoir me répondu. Je comprends bien ce que vous avez dit. Bonne journée.

Bonjour William, Yes, you can IRL, but in the kwizzes on this lesson, you can't. :-)

Bonjour William, They seem similar, but they're not: "after you do something" is a factual statement, because it has already happened. In contrast, "before you do something" is a hypothesis: it may or may not happen. Therefore French requires the indicative with the factual après que, but the subjunctive with the hypothetical avant que.

Bonjour Teresa ! There are two distinct expressions in French, and therefore don't behave in the same manner. "Avant que" expresses an action taking place *after* the main clause: Le Subjonctif implies there's a doubt as to whether this action will take place, as it hasn't happened yet. Whereas "quand" expresses a simultaneity, hence it being more assured and therefore followed by L'Indicatif mood. Other expressions behaving like "quand" would be: "lorsque" (when), pendant que (while), une fois que (once), etc... I hope that's helpful!

Thank you. I'm sorry my question was so general, but somehow it submitted before I was finished writing. In my textbook, I see "On ira au cinéma quand on finira nos devoirs." It just seemed so different from the English that it threw me.

Bonjour Susan ! Yes, you do :) Although in current speech, the "ne explétif" tends to be dropped with no consequence to the meaning of the sentence, the use of Le Subjonctif is compulsory, as in both cases, the phrase "avant que" still carries the sense of what is expressed here is uncertain to happen, as it hasn't happened yet. I hope that's helpful Susan! À bientôt !