I'm trying to get to grips with noun complements as well as the content of this lesson. Both involve de and d' and maybe des (I am confused!) Can you suggest other lessons that could help with this thorny subject please.
Look at these two sentences in English:
J'ai d'autres options.
I have other options.
Je me fiche des autres options.
I don't care about the other options.
When you need to express other [things] in French, you will use either d'autres or des autres.
Here's how to know when to use which !
1- When it is the plural of another [thing] :
(some) other [things] = d'autres [choses]
The indefinite adjective [un/une] autre - another + [singular noun] - becomes d'autres in the plural form.
-> Here the partitive des follows the rule of becoming de or d' in front of an adjective (See Using ''de / d' '' instead of 'des' in front of adjectives preceding nouns (partitive article)), hence d'autres [choses] and not des autres [choses].
Est-ce que vous avez d'autres livres?
Do you have any other books?
J'ai eu une autre idée, oui, j'ai d'autres idées.
I had another idea, yes, I have other ideas.
Je voudrais essayer un autre pull et d'autres pantalons.
I'd like to try another jumper and other pairs of trousers.
ATTENTION:
You will never use autres on its own:
-> J'ai autres chaussures.
You can never use des autres to express some other [things]:
-> J'ai des autres chaussures.
2- When "other [things]" is used in expressions involving de (se servir de = to use; avoir besoin de = to need; avoir envie de = to feel like, etc)
Here look at these two examples:
Il a parlé de la France et d'autres pays.
He spoke about France and about other countries.
Il a parlé de la France et des autres pays.
He spoke about France and about the other countries.
des autres is the contraction here of [de + les autres] (about/of the others), so it implies that we're talking about specific things here (the others),
whereas using d'autres here is the contraction of [de + autres] (about/of others) is less specific ([some] others).
Here are more examples:
Il a besoin des autres feuilles de papier.
He needs the other sheets of paper.
Il a besoin d'autres feuilles de papier.
He needs other sheets of paper.
Elle se sert d'autres outils: ils sont plus légers.
She uses other tools: they're lighter.
Elle se sert des autres outils: ils sont plus légers.
She uses the other tools: they're lighter.
See also L'autre, les autres = The other one(s) (indefinite pronouns)
Learn more about these related French grammar topics
Examples and resources
Je voudrais essayer un autre pull et d'autres pantalons.
I'd like to try another jumper and other pairs of trousers.
J'ai d'autres options.
I have other options.
Est-ce que vous avez d'autres livres?
Do you have any other books?
Je me fiche des autres options.
I don't care about the other options.
Il a besoin d'autres feuilles de papier.
He needs other sheets of paper.
Elle se sert d'autres outils: ils sont plus légers.
She uses other tools: they're lighter.
Il a besoin des autres feuilles de papier.
He needs the other sheets of paper.
Elle se sert des autres outils: ils sont plus légers.
She uses the other tools: they're lighter.
J'ai eu une autre idée, oui, j'ai d'autres idées.
I had another idea, yes, I have other ideas.
Il a parlé de la France et d'autres pays.
He spoke about France and about other countries.
Attention
Il a parlé de la France et des autres pays.
He spoke about France and about the other countries.
Q&A Forum 7 questions, 12 answers
Chris Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Hi Marilyn,
D'autres -- of othersDes autres -- of the others.
Je veux d'autres textes. -- I want other texts (of other texts).Je veux des autres textes. -- I want the other texts (of the other texts).
As you see, the version without the definite articles refers to an unspecified group of others. Just some other texts. The second sentence refers to a specific group from which to chose (the other texts).
Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Thank you, I think I've got the specific case of others/the others straight. I'd still like guidance on the uses of de/d'/des with noun complements generally though.
Chris Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
I am not sure what you mean. Can you give an example of what you are struggling with?
Kwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Chris, I'll try! When a noun is used as an adjective to describe another noun, it's usually linked by de or d' (e.g. jus de fruits) but there are cases where des is used and I would like clarification of when this is. In other words, how do I know when to use de or des in this situation? Thank you.
Marilyn asked:View original
Noun complements
I'm trying to get to grips with noun complements as well as the content of this lesson. Both involve de and d' and maybe des (I am confused!) Can you suggest other lessons that could help with this thorny subject please.
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BillKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
I have other shoes
Bonjour,
If you can't say "j'ai d'autres chaussures", how then would you express "I have other shoes".
Merci.
Asked 1 year ago
Hi Bill,
You can say -
J’ai d’autres chaussures
What you can’t say is:
J’ai autres/des autres chaussures .
Bill asked:View original
I have other shoes
Bonjour,
If you can't say "j'ai d'autres chaussures", how then would you express "I have other shoes".
Merci.
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PattyKwiziq community member
i can't see the difference!
I cannot see any difference in meaning between d'autres and des autres in the examples given! I am totalled stomped!
Asked 1 year ago
Kwiziq Q&A super contributor Correct answer
Patty these are the key sentences from the lesson:
des autres is the contraction here of [de + les autres] (about/of the others), so it implies that we're talking about specific things here (the others),
whereas using d'autres here is the contraction of [de + autres] (about/of others) is less specific ([some] others).
So putting the examples in some context:
1. You're in the pub and the old man in the corner is telling a bunch of stories about his life in the navy. He spoke of France and of other (unspecified) countries he had visited.
Il a parlé de la France et d'autres pays (de + autres).
2. "I want to explore France, Germany and Spain because my father has travelled extensitvely. He's told me many stories of (about) France and (about the) of the other (specified i.e., Germany and Spain) countries".
Il a parlé de la France et des autres pays (de + les + autres -> des autres).
Hope it helps!
Patty asked:View original
i can't see the difference!
I cannot see any difference in meaning between d'autres and des autres in the examples given! I am totalled stomped!
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RobKwiziq community member
The standard of lessons is usually great in this program. This one however needs to be rewritten.
Asked 1 year ago
SeanKwiziq community member
I completely agree. This is the first lesson where I did not feel that the explanation was very clear.
RobKwiziq community member
Since leaving the above comment a year ago I have finished the whole course. Happy to say that it's a great course. Also happy to say there are no other lessons as unclear as this one. While possibly not comprehensive, it would be an improvement to replace the whole lesson with the single sentence "D'autres = others, des autres = the others".
GKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Couldn't agree more. The explanation for des autres is more complicated than it needs to be. It took me ages to figure out when it could be so simple.
Rob asked:View original
The standard of lessons is usually great in this program. This one however needs to be rewritten.
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EngeniousKwiziq community member
Clarity
I think that your examples might be clearer if you divided them into three parts groups than two:
1.Supplemental Group
Do you have /another/some other/ idea(s) (as well)?
2.Different Group
I would like to try /a different/some other/ jumper(s) (in stead).
3.Desciptive
He speaks about France and /about other/ countries.
Greg.
Asked 1 year ago
Engenious asked:View original
Clarity
I think that your examples might be clearer if you divided them into three parts groups than two:
1.Supplemental Group
Do you have /another/some other/ idea(s) (as well)?
2.Different Group
I would like to try /a different/some other/ jumper(s) (in stead).
3.Desciptive
He speaks about France and /about other/ countries.
Greg.
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Ron Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Désolé mais je ne vois pas la différence exacte entre l'usage d’autres et des autres.
Pourriez-vous donner plus des précisions, s'il vous plaît?
Asked 2 years ago
Chris Kwiziq Q&A super contributor
Imagine you are a group of people discussing apples. You could say, e.g.:
"Certains aiment les pommes, des autres les détestent." -- Some like apples, the others (of us) hate them.
Here it is a statement about a definite set of people.
On the other hand, if you were talking about life and humans in general, you would say:
"Certains aiment les pommes, d'autres les détestent." -- Some like apples, others hate them.
In this case it is a general statement about an indefinite group.
I hope that helps, -- Chris.
P.S.: I am not a native French speaker, so beware.
Ron asked:View original
Désolé mais je ne vois pas la différence exacte entre l'usage d’autres et des autres.
Pourriez-vous donner plus des précisions, s'il vous plaît?
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AlmutKwiziq Q&A regular contributor
Why apostrophise?
I am aware of the general confusion between "des" the indefinite plural article and "des"="de"+"les" the combination of the "de" with the definite plural article. However, normally neither of them gets apostrophised. Whence the exception here?
Asked 3 years ago
AurélieKwiziq team member
Bonjour Almut !
That's a very interesting question, and thanks to you, we've now clarified this issue in the lesson.
In the case of d'autres, the partitive des follows the rule of becoming de or d' in front of an adjective (See https://french.kwiziq.com/revision/grammar/use-de-d-instead-of-des-in-front-of-adjectives-preceding-nouns-partitive-article), hence d'autres <choses> and not des autres <choses>.
We've now updated the lesson.
Merci beaucoup et à bientôt !
Almut asked:View original
Why apostrophise?
I am aware of the general confusion between "des" the indefinite plural article and "des"="de"+"les" the combination of the "de" with the definite plural article. However, normally neither of them gets apostrophised. Whence the exception here?
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